Top Kids and Family Podcasts (May 2017)

I've missed a month since the last time I looked at ranking podcasts for kids. (For those of you interested, here is March's list of top-ranked kids and family podcasts.) If you're looking for a podcast for kids, you could of course look at my list of podcasts for kids (inching ever closer to reaching triple-digits), but if that's a bit overwhelming, try the podcasts listed below. Popularity isn't always synonymous with quality, but you could do much worse than dipping into the shows ranked below to start out.

The biggest news since the last time out is the release of NPR's first-ever podcast for kids, Wow in the World. You can learn much more about the show in my interview with the show's creators, Mindy Thomas and Guy Raz, but unsurprisingly, even after just one full episode released this week, it's camping out at the top of the charts.

Even setting aside Wow in the World's arrival, this would still be a big deal sort of list, because there are 16 shows on the ranked list below, meaning 16 shows that appeared in the top 100 of both the iTunes and Stitcher "kids and family" charts. That is a record by a wide margin. The total number of podcasts listed below is 32, which ties the record high. And there are 3 podcasts below which hit the overall iTunes Top 200, while in the Top 200 Kids & Family chart on iTunes, the total there (33) tied the record. So there is clearly some increasing awareness of family-friendly podcasts.

Two other reminders:

1. If you're looking for a list that has most (or all) of these podcasts, check out my comprehensive list of podcasts for kids.

2. If you're interested in the future of podcasts for kids, you might be interested in Kids Listen, a grassroots organization of podcasters and folks like me interested in helping high-quality audio for children thrive. We're looking for other interested folks -- producers or otherwise -- to join in!

With that out of the way, let's get to the chart.

1. (tie) Brains On!

1. (tie) Stories Podcast

1. (tie) Wow in the World

4. Storynory

5. The Unexplainable Disappearance of Mars Patel

6. Tumble

7. Story Pirates

8. The Alien Adventures of Finn Caspian

9. Dream Big

10. Story Time

11. The Radio Adventures of Dr. Floyd

12. But Why

13. The Radio Adventures of Eleanor Amplified

14. Peace Out

15. Spare the Rock, Spoil the Child

16. Short and Curly

Others (listed alphabetically): 1001 Classic Short Stories and Tales, Activated Stories, Barefoot Books, Book Club for Kids, Children Stories and Joyful, Disney Story Central, Ear Snacks, Family Folk Tales, Little Stories for Tiny People, Molly and the Sugar Monster, Official Adventures in Odyssey, Podcast Kid, Saturday Morning Theatre, Sparkle Stories, The Story Home, That Story Show

Top Kids and Family Podcasts (January 2017)

It's a new year, but time once again to take a look at the nebulously-ranked world of podcasts, this time for January 2017. (Here is December's list of top-ranked kids and family podcasts.)

There was definitely a little movement in the list this time around, with some new entries, although the rankings of these particular podcasts within the "kids and family" charts in the iTunes and Stitcher kids and family charts are generally in the same range as last time.

As with last month, none of the podcasts ranked here ranked within the "all podcasts" chart on iTune. But the number of podcasts on one of the two lists jumped to 32, an all-time high.

As always: this is a blunt instrument, combining pure rankings from two fairly opaque charts, and for a variety of reasons has only marginal value as a measure of quality. (Results compiled from Top 100 podcasts on iTunes and Stitcher "kids and family" charts on Saturday, January 21, 2017. Podcasts that appear on both charts are listed with numbers; remaining podcasts only appeared on one list.) In this particular month, the hybrid nature of the chart probably penalizes what may be the most popular podcast, the brand-new Disney Story Central podcast. It's only available on iTunes, and can't chart on Stitcher. So: grain of salt noted.

Two other reminders:

1. If you're looking for a list that has most (or all) of these podcasts, check out my comprehensive list of podcasts for kids.

With that out of the way, let's get to the chart.

1. Stories Podcast

2. Brains On

3. Storynory

4. Tumble

5. Story Time

6. Story Pirates

7. The Unexplainable Disappearance of Mars Patel

8. The Alien Adventures of Finn Caspian

9. The Radio Adventures of Eleanor Amplified

10. The Radio Adventures of Dr. Floyd

11. But Why?

12. Short and Curly

Others (listed alphabetically): Activated Stories, Book Club for Kids, Children Stories and Joyful, Children's Fun Storytime, The Cramazingly Incredifun Sugarcrash Kids Podcast, Disney Story Central, Dream Big, Ear Snacks, Elmo's Adventures in Spending Saving and Sharing, Family Folk Tales, Little Stories for Tiny People, Molly and the Sugar Monster, Myths and Legends of Ancient Greece and Rome, Official Adventures in Odyssey, Podcast Kid, Spare the Rock Spoil the Child, Sparkle Stories, The Story Home, That Story Show

Short and Curly team in Sydney office in 2016

Interview: Kyla Slaven (Short & Curly)

One of my favorite podcasts for kids right now is Short & Curly, a production of Australia's ABC. You can read my review of the show if you'd like, but basically it's an ethics podcast for kids and families that delves into ethical issues without being ponderous. It's the product of those four people striking a pose in the picture above, giving you a sense that they're not taking themselves too seriously. The three in front are the "on-air" talent: Molly Daniels, an actor and writer; Carl Smith, a reporter for ABC TV; and Dr. Matt Beard, from Australia's The Ethics Centre.

The woman in the back is the engine that makes everything go -- she's Kyla Slaven, the producer for Short & Curly. I wanted to get some background on her, the show, and how the Australian kids podcast scene compares to the American one. (Spoiler alert: a lot of it is going to sound familiar to American podcasters and podcast listeners.)

Zooglobble: How did you get into radio/audio production?

Kyla Slaven: I got into radio accidentally. I was studying journalism at university a long time ago and the documentary film subject was so popular they balloted students for a place. My number didn’t come up, I gave radio a go, and fell in love with it.

How was Short & Curly created (e.g., where did the idea come from, how did you get ABC to support the show, etc.)?

Short & Curly has been on my mind for a few years now. I have previously worked as the producer on a philosophy show for adults at the ABC (The Philosopher’s Zone), and once made a program about studying philosophy in primary school. The kids, the ideas and questions, the whole ethos of it all in the classroom was exciting to me. So I just kept thinking that children were up for a program which appealed to their curious and interesting young minds. I didn’t study philosophy at school or university, another regret of mine, but always wanted to be a journalist or a teacher, so this kind of combines the two. I applied for a secondment [or temporary transfer] from the station I usually work at (RN at the ABC) to come to this digital first/podcast project (called First Run, which also made Science VS – now a Gimlet show) and this was one of the ideas I pitched.

I think the ABC was interested because it was a group of people not really being serviced by audio/radio at all (kids). The show is aimed at children listening with the families and also the show builds in things which are only possible in a podcast format, i.e., the pause button approach.

How long did it take you from getting the OK from ABC to having the show ready to air?

This is a bit hard to answer because I was also overseeing pilot podcasts being produced by other people in this First Run project as part of my job, but it was at least 6 months. We had to find/cast the hosts and our in-house ethicist, thinking through how it might sound, we had to find a school to be our brains trust and play around with ideas for topics and sound. I think we have already gotten better at working out how many ideas you can get into one show before it becomes unwieldy.

Our team live in different cities and come together for an intense week for production with me in Sydney, but they all have other jobs as their main gig. The hosts do scripting over a few days each (in the lead up to our week together) and our ethicists is always bouncing ideas around with us, but mostly it is just me working on the show, in all the pre- and post-production tasks. But I really love the week in the studio when I sit in the control room and watch the three of them in the studio riffing off each other and bringing the whole thing to life. There is a fair amount of fun and laughter that week though we are zonked by the end.

What were/are your goals for the series?

The goals were to help develop the culture of families listening to podcasts together (especially on car trips for holidays or stuck on traffic on the way to sports training and the like); the ABC had research showing parents were keen for non-screen based media and entertainment for children. We wanted to reach number one in the kids and family iTunes category in Australia, which we did. (Most of the programs are about parenting, though, rather than being podcasts for children.) I think we still have a lot of work to do in terms of creating a family podcast listening culture (that such podcasts exist, then how to listen to them).

What has been the response to the series in Australia? Internationally?

We have done pretty well, but not as well as some other ABC podcasts. I think some of this is about the issues in the [previous] answer. There is also so much work in getting the word out, targeting people and groups who might be interested in the broader concept or individual programs.

Co-host Molly in recording studio with a couple kids

Did you learn anything, particularly as it relates to creating audio for kids, in the first season of the show that you incorporated into your production of the second season?

What we have learnt, and are still fumbling our way around, is to be really clear in our heads what the two or three main “stops” in the journey are for each episode. We have also tried to do more rather than less signposting of where we are heading and where we have come from. Again, it’s a work in progress but these are probably the two main things we know we have to really nail. We have also tried to amp up the silliness and the colour of each episode using [sound effects] and the host interactions to set up self-contained little worlds.

Who’s your favorite ethicist/philosopher?

I don’t have a favourite philosopher, but I realised when producing the philosophy show that the host (who WAS trained in academic philosophy) was always at his most excited when we were looking at philosophy of science and some of the more esoteric stuff (to me, at least) like about time or reality, whereas I have always been more taken with philosophy and philosophers really grounded in political and social questions, whether in ancient times, during the enlightenment or now. But like I say, I am by no means an expert on philosophy or ethics.

What’s next for the show? For you?

I’m not sure what is next for the show, given we are not even one year in. There is a lot more to explore, as well as the potential for expansion into other areas of philosophy. We are hoping to do a live show later this year, partly so we can just have the fun of being in a big room full of children who are interested in curly questions about the world. My official job is at RN, a national mostly talks-based radio station that is part of the ABC. I would love this show to continue and would love also to do more in the kids audio world, but who knows?

Podcasts for Kids

"Why aren't there more podcasts for kids?" is a question that to my ears sounds like a close cousin to questions in the kids music world -- "Why isn't kids music as popular as children's books?" or "Why don't more people know about all this great music?"

It's a question that's been getting some attention recently. This morning, The Atlantic's website published "Why Aren't There More Podcasts for Kids?," an attempt to answer that question. The piece echoes a lot of the discussion that Nicholas Quah tackled several weeks ago for his essential weekly newsletter Hot Pod. (Yes, you should totally sign up for the free newsletter.) Quah's piece, in turn, was inspired by articles that podcast producer Lindsay Patterson (more on her in a minute) wrote asking that question for Current. (She expanded a bit in a piece on Medium.)

No, I'm not going to make you read all those links, though if you'd like to -- original source material being important for some of us -- please be my guest.

And before I go any further, let me just say that if you found this piece because you're looking for recommendations for podcasts for kids and don't care about the existential issues facing this category of audio entertainment, go to the very end of this piece, and I'll give you several recommendations [Edited to add: and a link to a (reasonably) complete list of podcasts for kids].

Basically, the theories outlined in articles thus far come down to these two following:

1) Lack of historical precedent: Patterson, in particular, subscribes to this theory -- as a relatively new format in which to present entertainment, there haven't been many examples of podcasts for kids. Perhaps this is because podcast makers started off making podcasts for others like themselves, and since relatively few 7-year-olds had microphones and editing software, there weren't many podcasts for kids

2) Sponsorship issues: I think Quah gravitated more to this explanation, proffered by Guy Raz, he of NPR and Mindy Thomas' best bud on SiriusXM's Kids Place Live Breakfast Blast Newscast. How do you convince sponsors to underwrite programs for shows when parents might feel a bit queasy about advertising? Where is the value for underwriters in that equation? And if you have a reluctance to invest in advertising, that's going to make it difficult for producers -- individuals or institution -- to invest the time and money to produce a high quality podcast. (Until kids start demanding to run Squarespace sites or send MailChimp newsletters. Then all those problems are solved.)

Quah and I exchanged a couple e-mails on the topic when he first broached it a few weeks back, and at the time I thought that both explanations had merit. I also thought that it'd be interesting to see whether the moves toward acquiring kids' content by entities like Netflix and Amazon would be duplicated in the on-demand audio field -- will Spotify, Audible, and Rhapsody get into the game beyond music? Are parents going to prefer their podcasts sponsored or paid upfront, buffet-style? (Notable for being left unstated in all these discussions, nobody's considering whether parents will want to simply purchase individual or season episodes of a podcast.)

But as I've thought about it further, I'm more convinced that something that's been touched on briefly, particularly by Patterson, is just as important, and that's how [expletive] hard it is to find good, new podcasts for kids.

3) Discovery issues: This is not a problem just for podcasts for kids, but I think the relatively small universe of quality kids' shows makes the problem that much worse. Let's start with the worst offender: the iTunes Kids and Family podcast chart. Imagine, if you will, that the iTunes music charts folded all songs about kids and families into the iTunes Kids and Family music chart, thereby including, perhaps Harry Chapin's "Cat's in the Cradle" and Lukas Graham's "7 Years." That would be pretty silly, right? But that's exactly what the podcast chart reflects -- by my count, of the top 30 podcasts in that list as I'm checking on it, 20 are targeted specifically at the parents and not for the kids. It's not like the ratio seems to get much better as you roll down the next 170 podcasts in the chart. (Waves hi to friends of Zoogloble fighting the good fight Spare the Rock Spoil the Child and Saturday Morning Cereal Bowl.)

What are the other ten podcasts specifically for kids in the top 30? One Taylor Swift podcast, a Sesame Street video podcast, a Nickelodeon video podcast, and 3 story podcasts. That leaves 4 podcasts in the top 30 that are full-fledged audio productions that don't echo something you (or your kid) might find elsewhere: a Focus on the Family-produced podcast that "combines the faith lessons parents appreciate with characters and stories that kids love!," something from the Story Pirates, and 2 science podcasts: Lindsay Patterson's podcast Tumble, produced with her husband Marshall Escamilla, and Brains On!, the brainchild of 3 public radio producers and released via NPR.

Compare that list with other top-podcast charts in iTunes for other genres, which are filled with podcasts I've heard of (and, in some cases, actually heard) and it's clear that people are doing a terrible job finding and spreading the word about good podcasts for kids. And it's not like there are other sources filling the gap. NPR? Their NPR podcast list suffers from the same definitional issue iTunes has, with only Brains On! being specifically for kids, and their fancy earbud.fm podcast recommender doesn't even have a kids and family subcategory. Googling "best podcasts for kids" yields a dispiriting short list of lists, and a dispiriting number of distinct, made-for-kids podcasts on those lists. Patterson's newsletter for Tumble does occasionally feature podcast recommendations for kids, but it's fairly new.

There could be more great podcasts for kids and kids and families (two separate categories) out there, but it's incredibly difficult to find them. And without the critical mass that might propel them into slightly broader consciousness -- only the top 4 in the Kids and Family charts place in the top 200 of all podcasts at the moment -- it's going to be hard to get more folks to think of "kids podcasts" as a thing, as something to recommend to families and as something to think about creating.

Thinking of "kids _____" as a thing is one of those concepts that kids music as a genre struggled with for a long time. Ten years ago, when there was a wave of attention to the artists who started around the turn of the century -- Dan Zanes, Laurie Berkner, Justin Roberts -- it seemed like not a week would go by without a newspaper article introducing the genre as if somebody would say, "Did you know there are people who make music for kids? And it's good?"

Thankfully, kids music is mostly beyond that, even if the genre hasn't fully punched through to the national consciousness in the way that the general public accepts without question the existence and usefulness of books and TV made for kids. Podcasts for kids are at an earlier development stage.

4) Podcasting tools: Again, this is not a problem limited to podcasts for kids, but I think that the target audience for kids podcasts suffers this problem even more. It is not necessarily easy for adults to figure out how to listen to podcasts or any on-demand (non-music) audio in the way that adults know how to find TV or books. (I know -- this is not news to anyone.) That obviously puts some pressure on the parents who are looking for something to listen to with their preschooler as they're driving around town. But presumably a parent who's interested in podcasts for kids knows how to get podcasts generally, so this is no greater technological problem for this genre than for podcasting generally.

Imagine how hard it would be for an 8-year-old, though. The 8-year-old probably doesn't have their own iPhone, but if they did (or their own iPod touch, etc.), no doubt their parents don't want to be constantly checking different websites or podcatchers to try to find a podcast for their kid. And the kid, who wants some degree of autonomy, particularly as they reach double-digits, age-wise, may not get that autonomy. It's the walled garden problem of video -- I've seen plenty of startups attempt to create a safe kids-only video area, but I'm not sure that any of them have been fully successful, or at the very least, none that don't have some tie to a broader entity (a "Nick" app or Netflix's and Amazon Instant Video's kids' sections, for example).

Beyond these other problems, I'm not sure that there's enough variety in kids podcasting. As I read these kids-podcasting articles, I kept thinking about Ear Snacks, a delightfully loopy series of shows from kids musicians Andrew & Polly. Sure, there are the occasional science-based conversations, but it is the closest thing I know of to a half-absurdist podcast for kids. And it's totally unique.

Where are the kids comedy podcasts? Why in the world don't The Listies have a podcast? Why in the world isn't (wasn't) there a Chicken Weebus podcast? Where are the actual kid-friendly radio hours like the Radio Adventures of Doctor Floyd? (There are good, specific reasons for those, to be sure, but those are examples.)

Having said all that, I've written a lot here, and I should really press "Publish" on this piece and get into the world. Two additional thoughts:

1) Once kids music became a "thing" again, there were a lot of folks who got into the genre who made music that was, well, not very good. Assuming that kids podcasts take the same route, we may see a bunch of crappy podcasts for kids over the next few years (along with a bunch of really good podcasts). That's why discovery tools are going to be so important -- nobody wants to hear their first podcast for kids and have it be a boring guy droning into a microphone or conversing with middling audio quality over Skype. (I have experience producing some of those myself.) One of the difficult things musicians have to learn is that not everybody is good singing songs for kids, and I have no doubt that some podcasters will learn for themselves that they're not very good making stories for kids.

2) These days, recorded music is mostly the calling card to get fans interested in seeing live music or supporting the musician in some other way. Musicians are, generally, not pleased with this development, but I don't think Spotify or Pandora or Rhapsody et al. are going away. Podcasts are even more isolated. So if I have one piece of advice for kids podcast makers is that you have to get out in the world and do live shows. Other podcasts for adults have done this - Radiolab, Pop Culture Happy Hour, Song Exploder, the list is long - but it's time that kids podcasts enter the fray.

If you've read this far, thanks. Really. If you have any thoughts or responses, please please please offer them below or send me an e-mail. I'm intending to keep listening to podcasts for kids and continue to think about the kids' media space and would love to hear other perspectives.

So, as promised, let's end these rambling thoughts with a list of recommended podcasts for kids. I'm excluding podcasts that may have some interest for those listeners who don't yet have their drivers' license or who may even be in elementary school -- certainly Welcome To Night Vale, Radiolab, This American Life, and 99% Invisible all could attract the interest of a certain (brainy) youthful audience. But they're not made with kids in mind. These are. Also, I've excluded items you can't find via iTunes' podcast link. I know that the on-demand world is a big one -- you can listen to those Guy Raz Breakfast Blasts, for example, via the Soundcloud website (and presumably their app). But that seems like an awful lot of work, and, as should be fairly obvious, making it even more work is not what we're going for.

[Edited to add: Now I've gone ahead and compiled a long list of podcasts for kids. Feel free to start with the ones listed below, then explore further!]

Anyway, if you've got more suggestions, please leave 'em in the comments, or send me a direct e-mail -- I'm always happy to expand this podcast world a little wider...

Brains On! and Tumble: It doesn't feel quite right combining two podcasts together, but the truth is they're both science podcasts that take kids' questions about science and get kids to answer them. They're both very good, so if you're looking for science-based podcasts, particularly for older elementary school students, try 'em both. My sense is that Tumble is the slightly more informal-sounding, the Radiolab to Brains On!'s This American Life, but, like I said, try 'em both. (Also note: I threw in a token donation to Brains On!'s recent Kickstarter campaign, which had more than 1,000 supporters.)

Ear Snacks: this, by the way, is excellent for preschool listeners, an area served very well by kids music but very poorly by kids podcasting.

Short & Curly: ethics for kids, a description which sounds like it could be bland or didactic (or worse: both), but which this new podcast from the Australian Broadcasting Company, makes fairly entertaining and not didactic at all. Appropriate for elementary schoolers of all ages.

The Radio Adventures of Doctor Floyd: Like those radio serial adventures of yore, these are entertaining, pun-filled, and with a bunch of funny voices. Think of it as The Thrilling Adventure Hour but targeted at 8-year-olds and without the in-joke learning curve that made (to me, at least) Thrilling too much of an effort.

Music discovery: Spare the Rock Spoil the Child, Saturday Morning Cereal Bowl, OWTK Kid's Music Monthly: Regular readers don't need any introduction to these podcasts, but if you're looking for the kids music equivalent of the indie-attitude podcasts plugged here, these will fit right in.